MORMONS! Please tell me how it is possible to believe in the Book of Mormon when modern DNA analysis proves ?
that native Americans are not descended from the Hebrews at all, and there are references to wheeled carts, horses, steel, and the 7 day week, none of which were around in the West during the pre-Columbian era. I am not trying to be mean, I would like to believe in this story of the Lamanites and Nephites so please tell me how are these contradictions solved?
Tags: contradictions, hebrews, horses, lamanites, wheeled carts
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
I guess we are stupid and you are smart
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Modern DNA analysis proves nothing of the kind. You really should stop referring to your anti-Mormon propoganda.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
First response is wrong. DNA conclusively proves that American Indians are of oriental extraction. But this is rather beside the point; the BoM is such a worthless piece of drivel that no one in his right mind would believe a word of it. For the straight dope on where the BoM came from, see:
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
http://www.the-book-of-mormon.com/dna-evidence.html
There seems to be some evidence here that differs from the whole "Native Americans couldn’t have descended from Hebrews" Theory. Just have to do a little digging!
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Hello,
That’s a problem I have had. The history and archaeology don’t add up.
By the way, the last "small horses" disappeared from North America 10,000 years ago and were not introduced again until the coming of the Spanish. Where are all the Ancient Middle Eastern type ruins?
Here is a list anachronisms and archaeological findings
5.1 Horses
5.2 Elephants
5.3 Cattle and cows
5.4 Swine
5.5 Barley and wheat
5.6 Chariots or wheeled vehicles
5.7 Steel and iron
5.8 Metal swords, which had "rusted"
5.9 Cimiters
5.10 System of exchange based on measures of precious metals
5.11 Silk
5.12 Knowledge of Hebrew and Egyptian languages
5.13 Compass
5.14 Windows
Cheers,
Michael Kelly
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
It isn’t just that it mentions barley and wheat, which are middle eastern and New England staples, it’s that it DOESN’T mention maize and squash, which is what WAS eaten in this hemisphere.
It doesn’t describe the weather they would have endured. Since the current theory places the action in Central America, surely there would have been monsoons and even hurricanes over the course of hundreds of years.
It describes huge wars with thousands of chariots, but fails to mention any roads that would accommodate wheeled vehicles – and none existed back then.
The DNA issue is pretty decisive. Even LDS apologists now agree that the x hapogroup thing doesn’t help them. Unfortunately for them, there is more DNA research on the way that makes it possible to trace quite precisely when various cultures mixed. They are going to take a huge hit when that gets published.
Instead of trying to prove that the modern Natives are descended from Lamanites (as clearly stated in the Book of Mormon), they are going to have to start spinning it to sound like all the Lamanites died out.
But then, the Book of Mormon always read for me like a very fanciful collection of tall tales, like Gulliver’s Travels. It NEVER seemed like a story about "real people" in a "real place".
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
I’ll answer this for the 500th time.
First of all, "evidence" is only as decisive as you believe it is. If you are looking to "prove" the church wrong, you will probably find things to support your ideas. If you want to "prove" its right, you can find other things to support that thought.
For a real exercise, do the same thing with the bible.
Secondly, The DNA test was initially done and did conclude that most of the dna is from asian descent. There was about a 3% overall match (much higher in areas of the midwest US also) for the x haplotype that would match the hebrew DNA. So it shows that most likely there was a very small group of Hebrew people that came and met up and mingled with a larger group of asian descent.
The book of mormon hints at the existence of other people around the nephites and lamanites- in the areas referred to as "wilderness." So its not such a crazy story.
An interesting thing is the Los Lunas Decalogue- its a stone in New Mexico that has the 10 commandments inscribed on it in ancient hebrew. It was found a long time ago and people just recently started to translate it. There are tons of things that the book of mormon claims that have been proved accurate over time that would have been considered wrong at the time of publishing. I can send you a list if you want, but its pretty long so I wont post it.
In any case, there is physical evidence that supports the book of mormons claims, but to really believe, you need a spiritual witness from God. No physical evidence can match that amazing experience. Take some time, read the book and ask you father in heaven if its a true account of real people. He will show you it is just like he has shown so many millions of us.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
As previously noted, DNA doesn’t prove much.
5.1 Horses – their bones haven’t been found, but there are traditions that they were known before the Spaniards arrived, and there are carvings of horses among the Mayan ruins.
5.2 Elephants – There are carvings of Elephants among the mayan ruins too.
5.3 Cattle and cows – Cattle can refer to bison, which did exist.
5.4 Swine – Wild boar did exist in North America.
5.5 Barley and wheat – Barley has been found. Wheat hasn’t been found, but several different grains have been called wheat over the years, and the Mayan did eat cultivate grain.
5.6 Chariots or wheeled vehicles – No chariots have been found, but toys with wheels have been found. Liters have also been found in the stone carvings. The rulers liked to be carried in liters.
5.7 Steel and iron – The Mayans did have steel as it is traditionally defined, as well as iron. The modern definition of steel doesn’t apply, as it hadn’t been invented yet.
5.8 Metal swords, which had "rusted" – Iron implements have been found
5.9 Cimiters – cimiters were fairly common, as they were easy to make.
5.10 System of exchange based on measures of precious metals – certain weights of precious metals, to be precise. This was common before coinage was introduced. The Mayans also had such a system.
5.11 Silk – Fine cloth with a silklike smoothness has been found.
5.12 Knowledge of Hebrew and Egyptian languages – some say that the Popul Vuh shows a strong Hebrew influence.
5.13 Compass – The Book of Mormon doesn’t mention a magnetic compass, but it does mention the Liahona which directed people by means of a spinning spindle. The Giron Gagal used by the Mayan had much the same function. Both translate as compass, or director.
5.14 Windows – Not all windows are "glass" windows. There are many windows among Mayan ruins.
So much has been found, that it is not unreasonable to yet expect many great discoveries. Pre-columbian Chickens were discovered just last year. That is another anachronism of the Book of Mormon.
The Mayan calendar wasn’t based on a 7 day week, but that doesn’t mean that some small Jewish subculture didn’t use one. Mayan legends tell of a man named Jawbone who came across the ocean with his family. Jawbone is the literal definition of the Hebrew word Lehi, which is the father of two civilizations in the Book of Mormon. In the book "People of the Serpent", which chronicles one Mesoamerican legend, it talks about these white people who came across the ocean and brought civilization to the natives; they quickly became the leaders of great nations. Stone carvings show them dressed in Mediterranian clothing, and wearing beards.
It just takes a little digging.
Look under the topic Book of Mormon at the following website for more:
http://www.deseretstudies.com/
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
You wern’t realy looking for an awnser where you? Good luck I hope you fine the real truth
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Our DNA testing can only do so much, especially after such a long period of time. Also, a lot of the testing was based on a theory. If you want to learn more, just look up Genetic, geological, and …. evidence for the Book of Mormon. (I’m not sure if I got the title right, but it should be enough for Google to get it.)
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
If God could part the red sea, flood the earth, why do you think He wouldn’t be able to change DNA?
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Because God is smarter than any scientist and through the power of the Holy Ghost, He told me the book is true.
None were around "in the West" – which West are you talking about? The US West?
We’ve never claimed the Book of Mormon events took place in the US. They most likely were in Central America.
If you are always looking for "signs" even when you see one, you most likely won’t know what it is.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Read the book and think about what you feel when you read it. Read it with an open mind. Don’t read it to find errors. You will find that there is no way it could not have been written by a man, but rather translated by one through the power of God. Talk to your Mormon friends about it. And when you research, research a Mormon source. Go to lds.org and mormon.org and you’ll find a wealth of information there.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
The DNA analysis doesn’t prove anything against the Book of Mormon:
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/DNA.shtml
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
How much interest do you really have in the history of it? How much interest do you have in the spirituality of it? In knowing if the spiritual ideas in it are true?
The Book of Mormon is a mostly spiritual book. That’s the importance of it. Yes we believe it is historically true as well, but that’s not nearly as important. Please don’t let historical issues stand in the way if you really want to find spiritual truth.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Please see this site…
IT is Book of Mormon place names compared to actual Northeast US/Southeast Canada place names.
http://www.uwec.edu/Geography/Ivogeler/w188/utopian/mormon-place-names.htm
There are more than two dozen Book of Mormon names that are the same as or nearly the same as modern geographical locations. See the site!!
Playgerism at its finest!
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
DNA analysis doesn’t prove "that native Americans are not descended from the Hebrews at all." It just doesn’t support any such theory. There’s plenty of room for belief in a small Hebrew population mixing with the natives. You say you would like to believe in this story … well, R Rosskopf has answered all of your apparent contradictions. I look forward to news of your baptism.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Well, you must remember that a lot of the people were killed off, and that the lamanites interbreeding with other peoples in the Americas would have made the gene pool a little shallow for hebrew genes. But, there is some genetic proof. As my source says "there are genes found in Native Americans that are also found in Jews, including mitochondrial DNA haplotype X (found among some Israelis and Europeans) and a Y chromosome haplotype called "1C"." It’s a good source that doesn’t skew facts. It even has its sources paranthetically documented. It also has a lot of other good evidences for the Book of Mormon.